Outrage 005 – Holocaust Denial – Luke Berryman

When I first approached the topic of this episode, the prototypical title was “It’s ok to punch Nazis.”

Let me explain.

As you know, the Outrage Overload podcast is science-oriented, intended to be non-partisan. If we talk about politics, we bring in scientists to talk about the psychology or neuroscience of politics, not about specific issues. In that context, we often talk about how “both sides” are guilty of using outrage porn (messaging designed to trigger moral outrage); How all of us can fall into self-delusions like motivated reasoning and such, regardless of party affiliation; And so on.

Because we frequently talk about “both sides” in the context of the research we discuss, I wanted to do a specific episode on bothsidesism, both in a general sense and also specifically making a distinction in the context of the podcast. Generally I don’t express positions on specific issues or try to change anyone’s politics on the podcast – there are other places for those discussions. But I thought it was important to dedicate an episode to clarifying this bothsidesism issue.

So that’s how I came to reach out to Luke Berryman. He is the founder of The Ninth Candle, a Chicago-based nonprofit organization whose mission is to end antisemitism by sharing knowledge. He has been in education for over a decade, teaching at the University of Cambridge and at schools in Britain and the United States. He wrote his doctoral dissertation on Nazi propaganda at King’s College London.

I discovered Luke Berryman from an article in Education Week titled “How Holocaust Denial and Other Bogus Claims Are Poisoning Schools” with the sub-title “Don’t be fooled by bothsidesism.”


Luke Berryman is the founder of The Ninth Candle, a Chicago-based nonprofit organization whose mission is to end antisemitism by sharing knowledge. He has been in education for over a decade, teaching at the University of Cambridge and at schools in Britain and the United States.

Timestamps and Transcript

Links and References

The Ninth Candle: https://theninthcandle.com/

International Holocaust Remembrance Day January 27, 2023 https://www.ushmm.org/remember/international-holocaust-remembrance-day

Education Week article: How Holocaust Denial and Other Bogus Claims Are Poisoning Schools


💬 What was your big takeaway or insight gained from this episode? Comment below.

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Outrage Overload is a podcast about the outrage industry, my journey to discover what it is, how it affects us, and what we can do about it.