The Importance of Unfiltered Conversations in Overcoming Fear and Isolation
In a recent episode of Outrage Overload, the Unfiltered Trio discussed the importance of unfiltered conversations in overcoming fear and isolation and building bridges between individuals who may hold vastly different perspectives. They emphasized the need for spaces where people can express themselves freely without fear of being judged or criticized.
The Fear of Being Corrected and Filtered
One of the main themes that emerged in the conversation was the fear of being corrected and filtered. This fear can be a significant barrier to communication and connection, as individuals may feel hesitant to express themselves freely for fear of being judged or criticized. This fear can be particularly acute in the current political climate, where every statement seems to be subject to scrutiny and criticism. Social media has created a culture of “canceling” those who express unpopular opinions or who make mistakes, leading to a sense of isolation and disconnection.
As one member of the Unfiltered Trio put it:
“Do you often find it difficult to voice your opinions and express yourself freely due to fear of being constantly corrected and filtered?”
This fear can be detrimental to our ability to connect with others and understand different perspectives. As another member of the Unfiltered Trio notes:
“It’s hard sometimes, right? Because you sort of, like I said, you kind of get geared up for a fight sometimes. That might make me have to think about whether I’m right or wrong. You know, and so that it, it’s a lot of work to do that I should say. You know, it’s, it’s, in some ways it’s a little bit counter to our natural psychology, right? You have to really engage kind of the front part of your brain to uh, you know, distort.”
This fear can prevent us from engaging in genuine dialogue with those who hold different perspectives and can lead to a sense of isolation and disconnection.
The Power of Unfiltered Conversations
The Unfiltered Trio suggests that one solution to overcome the fear and isolation caused by filtered conversations is to create spaces for unfiltered conversations. These conversations are characterized by a willingness to listen to others without judgment, to express oneself freely without fear of being corrected or filtered, and to engage in genuine dialogue with those who hold different perspectives.
As one member of the Unfiltered Trio explains:
“People were like, wait, we’re not gonna fight. And they would suddenly really open up and talk about stuff that they probably don’t talk about. In some of those conversations, they were conversations with folks that I knew well, and we decided to have this talk. I learned about stuff that I’ve known these people for years, and I never learned some of these things because we were afraid to have those conversations.”
Unfiltered conversations can be a powerful tool for building bridges between individuals, even those who may hold vastly different perspectives. By creating a space for genuine dialogue, we can begin to break down the barriers that separate us and find common ground in our shared humanity.
The Implications and Potential Impact of Unfiltered Conversations
The implications of unfiltered conversations are significant, both on an individual and a societal level. On an individual level, these conversations can help to alleviate the sense of fear and isolation that many people feel in our current political climate. By providing a space for genuine dialogue and connection, unfiltered conversations can help individuals feel heard, understood, and valued.
On a societal level, unfiltered conversations can help to bridge the divides that separate us and to foster greater understanding and empathy between individuals and groups. By creating spaces for unfiltered conversations, we can begin to break down the walls that separate us and build a more inclusive and compassionate society.
As one member of the Unfiltered Trio notes:
“It’s really isolating, and people get, it’s like brings depression. It can bring depression and other things about because you feel isolated that you can’t have these conversations.”
By creating spaces for unfiltered conversations, we can begin to break down the walls that separate us and build a more inclusive and compassionate society. These conversations can help individuals feel heard, understood, and valued, and can foster greater understanding and empathy between individuals and groups.
The Importance of Establishing Trust
As the Unfiltered Trio notes, it’s important to establish trust before engaging in unfiltered conversations. This can be done through non-political, non-contentious interactions, such as playing a video game or having a few drinks together. By establishing a baseline of trust, individuals are more likely to give each other the benefit of the doubt and see each other as humans.
As one member of the Unfiltered Trio explains:
“If you’re both playing a video game, you like. You know, for a while before any of this ideology comes up, you’ve already sort of started to establish some affect for that person. You know, you sort of, you know, you sort of appreciate that they’re, they’re fun and you like them and that kind of stuff. So now when that political stuff comes out, you know, we’re more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt, um, you know, and, and see them as humans and stuff.”
By establishing trust, individuals are more likely to engage in genuine dialogue and connection, leading to greater understanding and empathy.
The Importance of Kindness in Unfiltered Conversations
The Unfiltered Trio also discussed the importance of kindness in unfiltered conversations. They noted that finding something nice to say about someone can help to establish a positive affect and create a more welcoming space for unfiltered conversations.
As one member of the Unfiltered Trio explains:
“You can almost always find something nice to say. It’s not as, you know, Luz: it has a nice car. A really nice car. David: Yeah, exactly
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions.
Street Outrage – Unfiltered Trio – Final Mix
David: [00:00:00] I’ve been meaning to incorporate more street outrage conversations into the podcast. As you may know, the idea with street outrage segments is to bring the visceral to the academic. In regular episodes, we hear from experts about various aspects of the science of outrage in our politics and cult culture.
Street outrage is where we hear from real people about how outrage and the outrage machine shows up in their lives. These bonus street outrage episodes will be in addition to the regular episodes with featured guests. If they’re not your cup of tea and you just wanna stick with the regular outrage overload format with experts from various backgrounds, you can always skip over these street outrage bonus episodes and never miss anything in terms of the regular episodes, which continue to come out regularly, every couple of weeks.
So with that, get ready for a different format in this episode. I plan to do more episodes like this, so gimme your feedback on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at outrage overload, or email outrage overload gmail.com. Okay, let’s start the show.[00:01:00]
Welcome to Outrage Overload. A science podcast about outrage and lowering the temperature. This is a bonus street outrage episode with the unfiltered trio.
You know, I was really, I thought it was really cool when I, the first sentence out of your description on your podcast, you know, totally sort [00:02:00] of trapped me in where you say, um, do you often find it difficult to voice your opinions and express yourself? Freely due to fear of being constantly corrected and filtered and you know, that just rang so true with what I’ve seen.
Both, both what I’ve learned sort of with, from the conversation I’ve had with scientists and researchers and sort of the experts, but even more so with my conversations with. Uh, what I call kind of these men on the street. So I’m kind of the man on the street and I interview just kind of regular people and I, and I talk to ’em about, you know, social media usage and things like that and news media, other media usage and stuff like that.
And it’s very nonpartisan and I don’t, you know, go in and try to change their mind. I just wanna hear where they’re coming from. And, you know, it’s, it’s funny that, you know, and that’s been a huge journey for me. Like, I started doing that because I. As research for the podcast, like before I even knew I was gonna do a podcast, I was kind of just researching this topic of kind of outrage and all that and what do people think about it and if there was even something here to talk about.
[00:03:00] And so that’s why I started doing that. And then it was like a huge wake up call cause I wanted to talk to people, um, across this political spectrum. In other words, people that didn’t necessarily were on the same page as I was. And I wanted to just hear from them like, what do they have to say? And what was I.
And it caused me to basically pause real. It was so enlightening for me. I had to like pause for a while and say, okay, there’s, there’s a world here. I gotta stop and think about this, but what, what made me really circle, circling back to what you say in your, in your opening there about, you know, are you concerned about, you know, your fear of constantly being corrected and, and.
And filtered what I found in those talks, because I just listen and I don’t push back and I don’t try to change anybody’s mind. I just listen to what they say. People were like, wait, we’re not gonna fight. You know, and they would suddenly like really open up and really tell, talk about stuff that they probably don’t talk about.
And, well, I, I know they don’t, cuz they would talk about how they don’t talk about that with anybody. Mm-hmm. And in some of those conversations, they were conversations with folks that I knew well and we decided to have this talk and it’s, and I learned about stuff that. I’ve known these people for years, and I [00:04:00] never learned some of these things because we were afraid to have those conversations, right?
So they wouldn’t go there. But when they, you know, when we knew that we weren’t gonna fight, we were just gonna listen, you could then understand the other side. And so that, that really attracted me to what you’re talking about in your podcast. That, and I, I, I sense that a lot. I mean, I get people, they get really emotional about, you know, they talk about how there’s these issues and I want to talk about it, but I know I can, I’m afraid to talk about it for what, you know, for what might happen, how I, you know, might.
Change people’s, they might change, people’s mi might change their mind about me, things like that. So, you know, and it’s really isolating and people, um, get, it’s like brings a depression. It can bring depression and other things about, uh, because you feel isolated that you can’t have these conversations.
So I, I thought that was great. So, I mean, I think you’re really doing a good thing thing there. Thank you.
Luz: Yes. We appreciate
David: it. So, you know, I, I think it’s a perfect, um, it’s a perfect fit for, for what we talk about on, uh, on this [00:05:00] podcast as well. And because like I said, I’ve had experts, you know, kind of talk about that and, you know, this idea of, you know, the bubbles and filter, you know, and sorting bubbles.
Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. This’s kind of like a this’s, kind of like a saying that, um, loose likes to say, and it’s kinda, it’s kinda like something that we. That I actually, uh, think about when I’m having these conversations, um, with the ladies. And Go ahead. Go ahead and tell ’em what it is. Oh, the intellectual,
Luz: in order intellectual conversation, you being offended and also
Right. So a lot of times we, we are afraid to offend someone, but at the same time, that hinders us from having an intellectual conversation and actually getting to the core of what the issue is and being able to see the other side, right? Have compassion and empathy for the other side of what you already [00:06:00] believe.
And, um, with our podcast that, that. Literally is the premise of our podcast is kind of like we want, we have our three different perspectives and we want everyone to see that there are multiple perspectives and even more than three perspectives. Cuz I think it’s psychology, it’s like 12 if I’m not, not mistaken.
But, um, but that we can all, we can still be successful and come together and come to terms like, okay, you believe this, I believe this. And you know what? At the end of the day, we’re all trying to do the same thing.
David: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think people aren’t, are so used to, they’re just like expecting a fight, you know what I mean?
They’re kind of expecting to be attacked, so it’s like a shock when they aren’t attacked, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And you actually can have a conversation because it, and I think that’s another reason why of course they’re very reluctant to say anything, cuz obviously they’ve, um, you know, had that experience.
So they, they be, they get defensive. And I think you see this online in particular where people. [00:07:00] Are almost kind of reading between the lines and sort of expecting, uh, kind of a, or reading a negative, um, messaging in, into things. And then it kind of can escalate, I think when it’s in person that, that, that can be way laid a little bit.
But, but mm-hmm. You know, I think we’re, we’re just looking for it. Almost like we’re just expecting to be attacked and we’re just like on edge. We’re just like, I’m ready man. I got my punches ready. I’m gonna counterpunch in a second here. Defensive
David: Yeah. Yeah, very much so. And, and you kind of get it just, I think the online reason is one reason too.
Because, but I think this carries into offline too. You see it maybe not to the same level, but you know, people will say something at a party or a coffee shop and suddenly three people jump all over him, you know? And I was talking to, uh, get, you have, get any Simkin who’s like a, he’s, he’s a journalist and you know, he was talking about, and I don’t know if he’s right, but he was saying that sort of this idea of safe spaces.
You know, started to kind of, in a different definition of it, a lot of people now use safe spaces as a place [00:08:00] where you don’t have to worry, somebody’s gonna say something that offends you. Right? And he was saying the original use was almost the opposite. Like this was a place where I. You could say things that would offend people and you wouldn’t necessarily be attacked for it, you know?
Mm-hmm. That they would try to be a sort of call you in kind of idea rather than a call you out kind of idea. And I don’t know if that’s right, but I I like that. I like that thinking that, um, you know, that you can have a safe space by that definition. Like this is a place where it’s gonna be okay to say the thing you’re gonna say and somebody might be offended, but let’s pass through that.
Let’s get through that kind of thing. Right. Which we don’t have much experience with, you know.
Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely. And like if, if anyone listens to our podcast, you can tell like at points the conversation might get heated, right? It, it might seem like it gets heated, right? Because we’re both passionate about our opinions, um, and what we believe.
What we perceive the world to be, right? Um, but then we do this thing where towards the end it’s kind of like, [00:09:00] okay, huh, okay, I see your side. And after you get over that kind of like, um, I wanna say like conflict resolution, right? You get through the conflict, you resolve it, and then there’s just like this beauty that happens at the end where you’re just like, oh, I see your side.
I see you as human too. And, and that’s. That’s just, I love the way that, uh, you said the, your, I forgot what Yevgeni, if I’m not
David: mistaken. Oh, yeah. Yevgeni. Simkin. Yeah.
Stephanie: Right. Um, I love the way he framed it too, because it’s kind of like, uh, nowadays, like you said, it, everyone’s ready on the defense. And even me, sometimes I catch myself, I’m like, yeah, okay.
What are you gonna say? What, what, you know, what role you play in this? And, um, and just to be open and honest with like, um, Be open to hearing like a difference of opinion, I think is
David: important. Yeah. Oh, and it’s hard sometimes, right? Because you sort of, like I said, you kind of get geared up for a fight sometimes.
Hmm. Oh yeah.[00:10:00]
It’s also challenging, you know? It’s one of those things that if you do. Get this counter posi position and you actually listen to it. You know, it kind of, it’s cha, it’s difficult, right? Because it sort of throws you off. Like, I don’t want to hear that. Cause I liked what I already thought. I don’t wanna hear this other side.
Mm-hmm. That might make me have to think about whether I’m right or wrong. Mm-hmm. You know, and so that it, it’s a lot of work to do that I should say. You know, it’s, it’s, in some ways it’s a little bit counter to our natural psychology, right? You have to really engage kind of the front part of your brain to uh, you know, distort.
Stephanie: I mean, nowadays, cuz before back in history, right, they would go at it, right? Right. And then they’ll be like, okay, now what are we gonna do to resolve this issue? You know, nowadays I think that that has changed. Now it’s like, okay, well I don’t wanna offend, well, Well, no, this is how we, uh, Sharing your perspectives and whatever.
This is how we change the world, right? We’re not gonna all be kumbaya and [00:11:00] understand the world the same way, but we have to challenge each other. So this way we’re like, okay, well if I don’t challenge you, then you think you’re right. If you don’t challenge me, then I think that I’m right. Meanwhile, there’s no right and wrong.
We just have to keep challenging those, those different narratives so we can get to a point where it’s like, okay, now we can resolve this. You know, you, you win. And I win. We both win because we’ve, we’ve battled it out and um, we’re coming to the middle, you know, and we’re understanding each other a lot, bit.
David: Well, and even if we don’t reach a middle, if we at least get to a point where we accept each other as human and say, well, we can’t. You know, you have your place, I have my place, and we kind of disagree, but Right. I can see, you know, that you’re still a human being and you know, you’d probably pull me out of a burning car.
You know, it’s not like you’re an evil person that wants to destroy the world. We both, you know, kind of want a lot of the same things. We just kinda maybe want to come at it differently. And I, I think you don’t always have to totally agree or even completely fine a compromised position. You might still hold to your position.
Oh yeah. But at least see the other person as human, which is where, [00:12:00] you know, a lot of our problems are now, it’s like we can’t disagree. Without also saying, not only do I disagree, but this other person is evil. Mm-hmm.
Stephanie: You know, and that’s, and that’s where the outreach comes
David: in, right? Exactly. Exactly.
Because that’s that emotion that triggers it. I mean, you know, one nice thing is, you know, to talk about the, uh, I was talking about how some of this is kind of counter to our evolutionary psychology. Some of it’s actually there too. Uh, actually part of it too, because what you were just saying about collective consensus, that is part of our survival.
Like, that’s one reason why humans have done so well, because, you know, we did group up into groups and we. Let the group, kind of, the group, um, sort of could bounce off. And usually, you know, science has shown, or psychology has shown that usually if you have a problem and you get five people from the group to sort of talk about the problem, honestly, you, you do arrive at the right answer.
You know, you do arrive at a good answer. Um, You know, it’s when you get tribal and you refuse to change your mind. All that stuff that it kind of breaks down, right? But the reality is one person, you know, and, and they’ve [00:13:00] tested this with fairly simple kind of math things, right? That you know, your intuition with this little math thing is you just guess this guess, and then you sit in a group and talk about it with five people or whatever.
And almost all the time, the one that kind of has it right, or two that have it right, will kind of explain why they came to that answer. And it’s like, here’s how the math works and why this way is probably right. And you finally go, oh yeah, okay, that makes sense because you know, and you did that in the group and you might not have done that if you weren’t, weren’t in that group.
So we do know that, that, you know, that we do perform better when we allow. Are open, like you said, are open to hearing other people’s ideas. And again, we don’t always have to come to the same conclusion at the end, but you know, at least we can have that, that conversation and not decide the other person is evil.
Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely.
David: So, One thing I was gonna throw onto that though, as a caveat, I do wanna say like, when we get into these, if you get into these contentious conversations, I know that the, the, we’ve sort of seen the science has sort of shown that, you know, you don’t want that to be your first [00:14:00] reaction. You know, if you go into a room with someone you’ve never met, like, like I think, uh, you know, the three of you know each other pretty well.
So you already have like that baseline of trust, you know, and I mean actually, oh, oh really?
Stephanie: Actually only two of us. Yeah, so, oh, interesting. Um, me and Lou actually are very close. We’ve known each other for years. Um, but our third, uh, Maria, who is not here, which, you know, maybe some other time. Yeah. Um, she’s actually.
We did this podcast on a whim, right? We were at the bar, you know, talking, having some drinks night, right? It was one of those nights and she was like, oh, I had a podcast before. I was like, so did I, I had podcast, but it was. So then she was like, why don’t we do a podcast together? We were like, yeah. And that’s how it started.
So Maria is one of our, um, newest members to our friends, right? And, uh, we don’t know her that well, and through this journey we’re getting to know her and she’s getting to know us. So it’s, [00:15:00] it’s kind of pretty interesting. And me and her have opposite view, like most of the time we have, she thinks we have opposite views.
But I think that I just say it in a different
David: way. Interesting. Because what I was gonna say was that, you know, if you sort of throw two people into a room that kind of, their, their first interaction is, you know, maybe some hot button political thing that often can be not necessarily the right way to do it because now you only know them.
With this ideology presentation that they have. Right. That’s kind of your only, so it’s often nice to first have some sort of non-political, non-contentious kind of engagement. Like go have a few drinks together or go play pool, or We have more than one. Yeah. You know? Exactly. I mean, get to know a person.
Like if you’re both playing, we talk about video games. If you’re both playing a video game, you like. You know, for a while before any of this ideology comes up, you’ve already sort of started to establish some affect for that person. You know, you sort of, you know, you sort of appreciate that they’re, they’re fun and you like them and that kind of stuff.
So now [00:16:00] when that political stuff comes out, you know, we’re more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt, um, you know, and, and see them as humans and stuff. So I will say that, that you don’t, you don’t always want your first interaction with someone. We’re just gonna jump in and talk politics. It’s nice if you first have maybe some non, they call it sort of cross-cutting.
Uh, interaction. Right? So some kind of a interaction that’s non, non-political first, right? That,
Stephanie: that actually reminds me of the, um, I think it’s a psychology thing too, where it’s, it’s kind of like the sandwich. If you’re trying to, uh, have a hard conversation with someone first you tell them something nice and then you give them the hard, like what you really wanna say, and then you end it off on a nice note.
David: Yeah. Well, I mean that is very true though. I mean, one of the, many of the experts, you know, have come back to like a lot of the stuff that ends up working actually is a lot of it sounds kind of cliche and sort of, yeah, that can’t be right, but it actually can be pretty helpful, like you said, even just, even just the mental process of.
Trying to find something nice. Even if [00:17:00] you don’t end up saying, finding that many nice things to say. Even if you try that exercise of finding something nice, that actually helps you to, to humanize that other person. Right. And psychology has shown that your brain actually now just the exercise of trying to find and almost always you can find something nice to say about somebody, so you can almost do it, but always you have beautiful blonde hair.
Yeah, exactly. So you can almost always find something, you know, you can always go. You, you’re, you’re often on time something, right? You almost always find something nice to say. It’s, it’s not as, you know,
Luz: it has a nice car. A really nice car.
David: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I love your smile. That kind of thing, right? You can often almost always find something.
But anyway, even just the process of doing it does help, like as cliche as that sound, your, your brain will, uh, you won’t even maybe know that’s happening, but you’ll, you’ll make, you’ll, it’ll make you, uh, have a better affect towards them and they’ll more likely to humanize them or less likely to dehumanize them.
So I wanted to bring up something that is a topic out there that I wanted to, wanted to just get everybody’s as many, you know, all everyone’s [00:18:00] opinion on except mine. Cause I don’t like to throw out my opinion, but make sure you
Stephanie: start off with something nice first.
David: Well, I mean, if I haven’t said enough nice about you and your podcast and what you were doing, I, I want to reiterate that.
But it’s also just been a pleasure to speaking with, speaking with both of you. And I really, really appreciate, appreciate you making the time. Thank you. But one thing that you know, I’m particularly interested in right now is how people are using this term woke. Um, you know, it’s really being thrown around in political dialogue a lot now and political messaging and stuff, you know, and, and you see things, the woke mobs, the cancel culture, uh, and you’ve kind of got both sides using this term in different ways and meaning different things by it.
So, you know, I, I would love to hear, you know, forgetting what any dictionary definition is. I want to know. You know how people actually perceive it, like, you know, What do they see or, or how does it make him feel, you know? And for instance, my sort of trigger question here I was thinking about, because I think it’s something that he, he tried to make a very contentious statement.
Like, I, I wanna [00:19:00] know, like whether you’re on the left or right. Like, what do you hear when Ron DeSantis says, you know, Florida is where woke. Goes to die. I mean, do you like it? Do you hate it? And if so, you know, sort of why. So who wants to start? Lu can
Stephanie: start. I, I, no Lu can start because I’ve been talking a lot.
We’ve been talking a lot.
Luz: Oh my God. I mean, when I hear the word, I’ll be honest with you, I’m just in a place right now that I, at least in my perspective of things like people. You know, say something that’s unconventional. I’m a woke person, you know, if I think that whatever thought I have and I decided to, you know, just kinda put it out there, it makes me a woke person.
So if 80% says no to, you know, to the color blue, and then another 10% says maybe, and then blue.[00:20:00]
I kind think differently than the majority. I think people just throw that term around just, just to throw it out and Oh my God.
When he says that, I think he just wants, at least in my opinion, when he says that he’s just, he’s just trying to rattle people, to be honest with you. He’s just trying to rattle people. He’s just trying to be like, no, this, you come to Florida and Florida is going to be how we used to be. However that was, you know, before the war woke came around or whatever.
David: So you see a lot of it as kind of a signaling a little bit like people that use woke wanna, wanna sort of play the woke card. Look, I’m woke. See guys, you know, you think something
Luz: like that. I think social media, I see like parents who are woke supposedly, you know, like, oh, I’m a woke parent. Because, you know, they’re accept their, their child who’s like three years old and their child says, I’m, you know, I’m a girl instead of a boy.[00:21:00]
So they’ll be like, oh, I’m a parent. And it’s like, okay, sure. That’s what you wanna call it. That’s what you think you’re gonna be. Mm-hmm. I, they just, people just use any kind of word just to use it, to be quite honest with actually realizing what it means or what it does
David: or whatever. Well, that’s one of the biggest things that I, you know, you, that’s why I kind of want to ask like, how do people feel, how do people see it when they hear it?
Like, what are they thinking of when they see, and, and I don’t think it’s the same, I think different people using the term, Probably sends kind of different messages. So it kind of depends on the context a little bit. And that’s why the people that I ask some people this question and they say, well, look, it’s super easy cuz here’s the different dictionary definition.
That’s what it means. It’s like, and I, you know, like I said, I don’t usually push back, but I mean the reality is, but that’s not what it means cuz that’s not what people think it means. And perception is reality, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, Stephanie, what do, what do what, what thoughts do, do you have? Feel any feels on this?
Stephanie: Yeah, of course. So, um, [00:22:00] let’s see, where can I start? So woke, um, remember me as a date to make short. I know. I, I could kind of like get into like this. Deep go for it. We got plenty of time. So, um, so for me, the word woke, um, I think it signals more of a change, right? When I hear the word as like, okay, a change from the normal narrative, right?
Um, but of course with any word that people use, it gets, tends to be overused. And the power of that word loses its, loses its meaning, right? So the word woke to me now, it, people are just using it to, uh, signal that they, uh, they’re at least. To signal that they are in opposition, right, in opposition of specifically the conservative narrative, right?
Because te technically, typically, sorry, not technically. [00:23:00] Typically when the word is used is used in, uh, in more liberal, liberal spaces, right? Because conservatives, um, or the Right, right, the left versus the right, the right. Um, Anytime you speak to somebody from the right and you say, whoa, they get offended by it.
Right? And versus the left where they’ll be like, you know, they’ll cheer you on in a sense, right? So that’s kind of like where my mind goes with that. And as far as Ron DeSantis, I, again, I agree with, I agree with Lou. He’s just, since he, for me, since he sees that people. Get all rattled, right? Like she said, rattling the cage when, um, you hear the word woke, he’s using that as to, he’s using that to get followers.
He’s using that to get, um, people on his side, especially like, you know, people on the, on the right, because those are his constituents, right? [00:24:00] So, um, but I also do think that it comes with, um, There’s some weight to that too because, and he, I wanna say there’s like some heaviness to that word too, because, um, for me, I feel like people want to dismiss, um, like they’re dismissing each other by using that word.
Like, no, it’s not, it is not about being woke and it’s not about the left, it’s not about the right. Let’s let, like I, it’s just, let’s try to figure out what it is. Why we feel so like offended by that, like what you’re doing. Like why do some people feel offended by it? Why, why do, uh, some people laugh at it, right?
Um, And I don’t know that that’s the best way I could explain it.
David: Well, I, I mean I noticed that in particular, um, lately, well there, some of this was, it was thrown around a lot at, at cpac it seems [00:25:00] to be part, that was like in back in March. That’s like a conservative conference thing that they put on. Um, anyway, anyway, it’s like a conservative conferencing thing they put on, I don’t know if it’s annual or sporadically, but, um, And there was a lot of talk about it there.
It was in, it was a main theme of this sort of, sort of woke equals fascism kind of thing. And so they talked about it a lot. Again, something like what you’re saying, you, you think it’s primarily sort of stir up a base, but I’m always trying to ca curious to hear, you know, when you, when they go to those, when you have a conference like that, you’re kind of hearing what.
The speakers say, but you don’t necessarily hear what do people hearing that message think it means or Right. How, how, how do they react to it? And I, you know, some of it, like you were talking about, sometimes these words, like you say, sort of lose their meaning. And now it’s like, I, and I kind of hate that when a word kind of gets basically taken out of, out of our vocabulary because it just doesn’t make sense.
Like you can’t use that word without everybody having a lot of reaction to it and nobody really agreeing what it means. But, um, So I saw it at [00:26:00] cpac. It started to be a big thing and I, I’ve just noticed it with the, you know, a lot of people starting to announce for the 2024 Republican nomination, it seems like almost, oh, that gonna be interesting.
Almost every one of them. I think maybe Trump is one of the only ones sort not, well, I guess he also uses it, but, um, you know, almost every one of ’em. Has come out with some kind of an anti woke aspect to their campaign. Mm-hmm. You know, and I guess, you know, I don’t know if maybe Maria leans a little bit more Right.
But I mean, I’d be, I always kind of want to hear what do people get out of that? Like, is that a message people want to hear? Are they kind of like, I’m already kind of over it. I don’t want talk about that anymore. I’m not, and I’m talking about people on the right too. Like, you know, are they, what, what are they getting out?
Like when, when Nikki, Nikki Haley, I don’t remember what she said, but something about in her veteran plan, I think she had a five point plan or something, and one of them was, You know, removing wokeness from veterans or something like that, or from, you know, like in the veteran’s worlds, like, does a veteran really care about wokeness?
Like is that an important issue? And you kinda say, I don’t know. Right. I mean, I think. You know, it [00:27:00] seems like that would not be an issue for a lot of veterans. I mean, there might be, you know, a right winging segment that really likes that message and wants to hear it, but I don’t think of every veteran as right wing.
I mean, there’s so, you know, does is that really a top issue? So you kind of wonder how well those messages are working and, and I, and I particularly want to kind of understand. You know, my wife gets mad about this cuz she’s like, no, there’s a very clear definition. It means this. And like, why are these people wrong?
It’s like, well, nobody’s really wrong. They think what they think. Right. And I, I really wanna kind of get a better understanding of what we think about this. But, um, you know, and it might be, and, and I’ve had a hard time, you know, a lot of it kind of comes back to what I was talking about earlier when I’ve talked to people on the right and sort of ask ’em about this.
They’ve become very defensive. Like mm-hmm. You’re trying to, you’re trying to get me, like, you just wanna trick me into saying something I shouldn’t say or whatever rights like, You know, I, I don’t wanna do that, and I don’t, and I don’t want to get a reputation for like, being that way. Like I. I’m just gonna tell people what you said.
I’m not gonna necessarily spin it one way or the other. I’m just gonna like, I, I do want to hear what people think cuz I, I think it’s [00:28:00] really important for us to know, you know, we, we can’t just, if we don’t like a thing, we can’t just discount it because people are thinking it, they really are out there and they’re making decisions based on that.
And we should kind of understand like where they’re coming from and. And, and a little bit of the why, how how’d they get there and, and you know, and so anyway, that’s, I don’t know, woke is just really on my mind right now.
Stephanie: Yeah, I mean, I, I totally agree with what you’re saying and I think that maybe it’s a scapegoat, you know, cuz.
Now that you’re talking about it a little more, I feel like sometimes it’s a scape scapegoat for certain people to not say what they really wanna say. Really wanna say like, why don’t you say what you really wanna say, but you’re using this word and you’re overusing this word to not say what you really wanna say.
Why don’t people not, sometimes people word
Luz: be unfiltered. Not even, but some people use the word just to kinda cover because they have nothing else to say. Right. It’s kinda like I’m woke, so if I tell you what I think, you know, you’re not gonna [00:29:00] understand. And I’m like, no, no, I perfectly, I understand. I understand a lot, but you just probably don’t have anything else.
So you just using this term to be like, oh, I’m a woke person and because I’m woke you, you’re not gonna, we’re not gonna be on the same page. And then the conversation ended
David: like that was Right. Right, right. It could be a show, it could be a conversation stopper. Right. But just end the conversation. That’s point that.
Yeah, that’s a good point that I think both sides sort of can use it that way. Right? I mean, like you’re saying, someone that like you can sort of say, I’m woke. Therefore you can’t question anything I say. Mm-hmm. Right. You could almost like put up a shield like, how dare you question me cuz I’m woke. Right.
Uh, and I think the right can use it as a pejorative, like, you know, they’re woke so therefore, you know, we, we really can’t take anything they say seriously kind of thing. So I think you can kind of use it both ways and it is being used both ways. Mm-hmm.
Luz: It’s being, being overly used. All these words now it’s like they take one word, it becomes something and now it [00:30:00] just.
It’s like in the new norm to use it however you may see fit in whatever situation you’re
David: in. Well, and it start to be picked up by the, you know, people that are heavily partisan to, to now. It’s a thing, like if I say I’m woke, it’s, you know, like you’re saying, you’re saying the thing without saying your, the thing on the left.
It can sort of be, I’m saying the thing, meaning I think you are racist if I say, almost saying I’m woke. I think you’re racist. Right. Or you are something else. And almost the other way around too, like if, if I say. You know, woke is bad. That sort of mean, that might mean, well I’m kind of racist a little bit.
You know what I mean? It can almost be used sort of both ways. Maybe racism was a bad one, bad one to pick, cuz that’s obviously a pretty hot button topic. But, but you know, and it’s, it’s, it’s challenging topic. No, but no, but it’s,
Stephanie: it’s true. It’s absolutely true what you’re saying. And it’s like, like I said, like you, they’re using it to, you know, hide from.
Whatever it is that they’re trying, trying, would not have that conversation. Right. That, that conversation Stopper or? Or start? No stopper. [00:31:00] Mostly stopper. It’s mostly
David: stopper. Mostly stopper?
Luz: Definitely mostly a stopper. Cause even at work, I hear, especially like people who are younger than me, they’ll be like, you know, I don’t think like that because I’m a woke.
Person. Right. I don’t even know what that means. And you know, like you’re right, it’s a stopper. Cause I go back to doing my work. I’m like, we’re done. We’re done conversation. And I retreat to my clients.
David: Well, that’s another way it does get used. It’s kind of generationally, right? Like it’s kind of wink, wink.
You’re a boomer, you’re Gen X, you’re a millennial, you’re wrong. I’m right. You know, it’s like mm-hmm. Um, Because once you say I’m woke and sort of like implying that all the other generations aren’t woke or whatever, right. It can kind of, that’s another way it can sort of be a stopper and you, you sort of see that use of it as well.
Absolutely. You know, I’m waiting for the,
Luz: the generations. It’s hard also speaking to somebody who’s younger than you and speaking to somebody that’s, you know, older. I always like one thing, at least, you know, on a personal level that has, has helped me, at least with my relationship with my like family is [00:32:00] pretty much accepting the fact that their mentality is based on what they grew up on.
You know, and whatever was going on at that time, my mentality is in whatever, um, I grew up in and my son who’s 13, his mentality is on whatever he’s growing up, you know? So I try to kind of be in the middle of things where I can try to understand, but not so much as accept because what I believe is what I believe.
David: So, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I guess we could jump into a couple of the other things we did talk about before about, uh, you know, so, and again, I don’t know who wants to start, but you know, as far as you know, has anybody you know blocked or quote unquote canceled you, you know, maybe in social media because of stuff you’ve said, particularly regarding politics, said, if
Luz: canceled was around, I.
Cause I don’t have, I’m not that important.
Im not that important. Somebody to [00:33:00] cancel me. Yeah. That’s another word. It’s like, oh my God, what can I say that off offend anybody? Like. Everything has to be such a cookie cutter phrase or just, uh,
David: I mean, do you think you haven’t been canceled because you’ve, you know, kind of tempered yourself cuz you don’t wanna be canceled?
Or do you think, you know what, why
Luz: do you I know canceled? Cause like I said, I’m not very, besides the podcast, this is very, very new to me. I’m not one to always, you know, put myself out there. So, quote, it’s like nobody knows me, you know, in my own neighborhood, nobody, yes.
David: Interesting. What? What about you, Stephanie?
Stephanie: Me, I think I’ve probably been silently canceled.
I, I’m very like, vocal on my social media and, um, I have very, um, I wanna say more liberal standing. And a lot of people I know have more of like [00:34:00] a conservative, uh, right standing. And I’ve noticed that some people stop. Watching my stories,
Luz: certain things that I said we’re both,
Stephanie: so I, I’ve seen like people pull back a little bit, right?
Um, so I wanna say like silently. Yeah, of course. Maybe, probably. Um, and probably some people probably think I’m crazy. Sure. Yeah. So, um, but as far as like the podcast, um, as a, as a whole, uh, we actually started posting on TikTok and on TikTok at, uh, Maria, at other, uh, co-hosts has gotten backlash for some of the things that she said.
And, um, I kind of have to step in and kind of either we were reply, I was replying to it just to see kind of, um, Where the person’s head was at and why were they saying what she was [00:35:00] saying about her? But, um, the trolls, like, you’re gonna find trolls on social media. You’re gonna find people who are trying to tear you down.
And, um, so yeah, we’ve, we’ve gotten a little backlash, right? We’re not popular. That popular. We have very small following, but, um, We’ve gotten some,
Luz: but I also think that we’re mindful of what we say. You know, we’re right. We also respect each other, to be honest with you. We do. We do respect each other. We respect people in general, so we don’t, you know, we don’t use any terms that we know is going to be offensive or anything like that.
We just state our opinion, whether we agree with each other or not. We try to. Keep that in mind to just do it in a, you know, in a way where we’re getting on point across. Like, I wanna be stern, but I don’t want to be disrespectful.
Stephanie: Right and intentionally hurt people who are gonna be our, you know, listeners and stuff like that and [00:36:00] Yeah.
David: Right. Although you can’t control how people take something either. I mean, boy, people, like I said, oh God,
Stephanie: no. There was a, there was a post that, um, Maria was talking about credit scores, and somebody came in and said, you don’t know what you guys are talking about. You’re a mediocre podcast. And, Just because you have equipment, you shouldn’t be on a podcast.
And I was like, oh, is that what they said? I was like, yeah. I was like, uh, we’ll take your thoughts into consideration. Consideration. Thank you.
David: Yeah. I mean, sometimes the most neutral thing, people can just get set off, like you say, sometimes it’s a troll, but, but sometimes people can get set off and they aren’t necessarily, they may not sort of be trollish behavior, but maybe they’re not really intentionally being a troll and they, they can just get set off for the slightest thing slightest.
Stephanie: Credit scores? Oh, no.
David: Well, and you know, I had a, I had a, I did a show on, uh, some, you know, with about, nextdoor with somebody that had an experience on Nextdoor and they, they, um, you know, it was like every post can [00:37:00] just turn political. Like I was talking about bank, you know, something had happened at the bank and suddenly people were coming in.
Well, that’s because you elected the wrong governor. It’s like, what? You know, and
Stephanie: capitalism and.
David: Yeah. And it’s just like, and then it turns into this whole fight, you know, back and forth and it kinda doesn’t involve you
Luz: anymore. I elected the wrong bank. It’s like, no, no. I said I went to the bank. That was,
David: that’s it.
Exactly. I went to the bank and boom, you elected the wrong governor, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, exactly. Something to do. The fact
Luz: that I have no money in the bank.
David: Yeah, exactly. Um, well, have either of you, um, felt directly or indirectly threatened because of social media reactions? No,
Luz: no, like I said, I’m not popular at all.
I, I have like social media now and I’m still not as active as I should be. And I know Stephanie probably hates me for that, cuz I’m not as active as I should be now that I have a podcast. Yeah, because I’m, I’m very, very late. I hide from the camera.
David: [00:38:00] Yeah. I have to really force myself to put something out there on a semi-regular schedule.
That the only one, I’m not the only one. I mean my personal page is like if my Instagram or something. I’ve had an Instagram since the very beginning cause I’m sort of a tech guy and researcher, so I kind of just wanna see what it was about. So here I am, this old guy, there’s all these 13 year old girls who are really using it.
I’m just going, hell, I’ll get an account. What’s that about? But I mean like, you’d find like five posts a year on my in, on my Instagram account. Right. And it would usually be since my wife and I went to a ballgame or something. Right.
Luz: I used the birthday, my sons birthday.
Stephanie: But yeah, I don’t get offended by.
By anything or feel any type of way when, uh, somebody posts on. So at least not now, right? Because we don’t have a big following, so we dunno. Um, but the stuff that has come at me or at us, right? Because I take, you know, we’re a unit, so if they say something about Maria or lose, I’m gonna take, I’m gonna take it.
Okay, let, let’s see what this is about, you know, but I haven’t, it’s, I laugh at it, [00:39:00] to be honest, and you gotta have humility. And I actually like posted about humility today, so.
David: Yeah. Yeah. So, so far none of them have been, like, you didn’t see it as like a serious threat or for your safety or anything? Yeah,
Stephanie: there’s no like, coming from my life or anything.
David: It al it always. It happens. So I,
Luz: when they do do that, at least, you know, we made it
David: exactly right. It’s when you first signed, you know, you made it right. Gotta be our first
Luz: sign. We come and somebody’s trying to shoot at us. We made it.
David: So it sounds like you haven’t, let’s hope. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know, right?
You don’t want that. It, it sounds like you haven’t thought about sort of getting off social media, at least maybe in the personal realm, even if, if not certainly obviously on the podcast side. Uh, yeah, we
Stephanie: have, um, we’re, we’re in talks about like, um, doing live podcasting and like, um, even just networking, right?
Meeting other podcasters, going to events. And, um, so, and we have like a lot of fairs in [00:40:00] New York, so we were also thinking about maybe having a booth and. Providing, doing something with that. So, um, eventually, yeah, we, we plan to get off of social media, um, and yeah,
David: but not in response to sort of bad reactions and trolls and stuff like that.
Stephanie: No, no, no, no, no. No, not at all. I mean, we, we all grew up in New York City, so I’m sure we’ve heard a lot, a lot more
David: than what these people, a lot thicker skin than your average American Right.
Luz: Household. This is how they, a Spanish household anyway, they make, right. Yeah.
Stephanie: Culturally, culturally strong in that
Yeah. Just what you have to deal with getting from one borough to another is. Is enough Right? To let’s not even talk about that.
Stephanie: That’s a whole different podcast. That’s,
Luz: we do not, that’s a whole different hour. I can sit there. [00:41:00] Traffic and Miles takes me about half an hour when it shouldn’t. Right.
David: Well, I don’t, so I’m curious about, I guess, you know, maybe we will end with this.
What, um, and, and actually we could end with anything you want, if you want to add any more stuff, but, you know, so what about, uh, news content sort of outside? I. Uh, social media, like TV news or newspapers or online, you know, online or offline, but you know, online news, media, things like that. Do you guys engage with, with any of that sort of thing?
No. Like New York Times, wall Street Journal, any of that kind of stuff. Oh,
Stephanie: you do? I do, yeah. Oh, okay.
Luz: So there’s, I know it’s only for my part.
Stephanie: You, and when you say engage, you mean as the podcast or just you as a person, your personal.
David: Yeah, I mean you’re, yeah, like, I mean, do you sort of check the news a couple times a week?
Yeah, a couple times a day or whatever, you know?
Stephanie: Yeah. I have the NPR app on my phone and I have like the NASA app. Um, but I do, I do, um, check the news pretty, pretty [00:42:00] frequently and, um, even like listen to other podcasts that talk about news like, You know, daily wire it all types of news. So yeah, I do it pretty frequently and it’s mostly online.
Um, and then I also have like my Roku, uh, tv and sometimes they have news on there and local news and stuff like
David: that. So, yeah. Hmm. Interesting. And so have you ever experienced, like, you know, I, I talk about this idea of kind of this outrage porn thing, kinda the rage porn thing where it’s just like they’re constantly trying to get us mad about stuff and get us upset, you know, and get us mad at the other side.
I mean, do you have that, has, has that kind of stuff caused you to maybe tune out a little bit or change how you use those sources or even change which sources you use at all?
Stephanie: Uh, for me, no, not at all. I, I mean, yes, I will say it has changed the sources that I’ve used, right. So, um, listening to less opinionated news, um, [00:43:00] because a lot of the times what somebody thinks is news, right?
Um, Is not actually, uh, truthful news is more of an opinion that someone’s giving. And, um, I’ve learned to stay away from kind of like the opinionated parts of news, um, and stick with more, uh, news feeds that, you know, just give me. What, so, um, how can I explain it that just give me the basics of what was happening, right.
Um, the fatness without adding
David: as much
Stephanie: spin. Yeah, right. Without adding so much opinion. And you could tell the difference once you start. Um. Once you start listening to different types of news, you know which ones are more opinionated than others. And yeah, I just, I sometimes if I wanna be entertained and see what the other side or has to say, then I’ll be like, ok, yeah, lemme listen.
Lemme see what they have to say. You know, but it’s, it’s [00:44:00] purely entertainment at that point.
David: Right. So it sounds like you kind of used that as a strategy to. To keep yourself from getting too stressed out about it all. Yeah,
Stephanie: I, I like to hear, I always like to hear both sides and you know, it, it helps me determine, you know, what I believe, right.
Um, because I, I have to hear the opposite to see if that’s what I, you know, I wanna hear if you know what they might say opposed to what, how can I say what they might say, um, that I might. That might determine, okay, well maybe this wasn’t right, um, on this newsfeed or whatever, but this is right on this newsfeed and kind of like, I don’t know.
Yeah, right. Best way I can explain it.
David: So, Lu, do you stay o off or stay away from sort of news stuff? Partially just because you don’t wanna get stressed out about it or have any other reasons why I
Luz: like I research. I guess you can. I’m, [00:45:00]
Stephanie: you know,
Luz: I don’t interact as much and stuff, so I try to educate myself just by randomly, literally just searching whatever kind comes up.
And if I find something like, ok, lemme find, you know what’s going on, then I just kind do my own research.
David: So well, and we, we can find ourselves so absorbed with some of these national, you know, issues. And in reality, if you think about what affects you day to day, these national issues aren’t the things often.
I mean, some, some obviously do, but, but many times, like there’s so much going on in our local area that, and we’re just so focused on these national issues that, you know, this guy off in Washington has very little to do with what’s happening in my neighborhood. Mm-hmm. You know, so you can find yourself doing that.
So, I mean, sometimes that’s a good strategy of just kind of, What’s really happening in my neighborhood, you know? Mm-hmm.
Luz: A lot. I always think somebody got stabbed, somebody got run over, somebody got robbed.
Stephanie: Yeah. And that can definitely be, become overwhelming, um, when you’re listening to lo local news, especially in New York City.[00:46:00]
Luz: Yeah. Cause if you really look at the address and like, lemme see how close I, and you’re like, oh my God, I’m only two blocks
Stephanie: away. Uh, like the Citizens app. So I never downloaded that Citizen’s app ever because I knew that it was gonna, it was just gonna stir things up in me, and I was gonna be afraid to go outside, or I was gonna be afraid to do certain things because now you have an alert two blocks away, you have an alert three blocks away.
And, you know, I just, I never, I never wanted that app at all cause of that. And that’s one of the, Yeah, that’s one of the ones I definitely stay away
David: from. Yeah, you get some of that from from Nextdoor as well, you know, in the news. Doing that. That’s sort of another version of, when I use that term, outrage porn.
That’s kind of another version of it. Right. They’re trying to get you scared about the weather and crime and you know, traffic and just trying to pound you of how bad the world is all the time. Right. Right.
Luz: It works good, bad, not bad, but we’ve had this all the time. It’s just never been, it’s never been so easy to access.
That’s the problem now, you know? [00:47:00] Mm-hmm. Like she said, tell you like, Hey, robbed 50 feet from where you.
David: Well, and right. I mean, you know, if you look at the statistics on, on this, we shouldn’t have been going out of the house in the 1980s. Right. We should have never gone out of the house. It was, the crime was so high, but we didn’t, we didn’t have any idea.
So we just go storming out, blur dirty dirt. We’re good.
Stephanie: Yeah. And that’s, that’s one thing that I’ve seen recently that was, um, a study done or it wasn’t a study, it was. Something that I was reading, I forgot what it was, and they were saying how the media is saying how crime in New York City has went up so much and you go outside, there’s crime.
And what the truth is, is actually the. It’s actually took a downturn, right? So it’s lower. The crime has lowered since the nineties, but yet everyone thinks that the crime has went up. Cause of that outrage right
Luz: up anymore, people don’t even like going out anymore. So it’s like, ah,
Stephanie: that doesn’t make sense.
Right? And, and I [00:48:00] could tell from my own experience walking the streets of New York City, I, I don’t feel like, I don’t, when I was younger, I felt less safe. Right versus now. I don’t know if it’s because now I’m an adult, but a lot of things that has happened in the past hasn’t happened recently. So I’m like, huh, has crime went up?
Or it’s just. I don’t know. Probably still the
David: right? Well, I mean, I think long term it has a trend down and, and yeah, you get your spikes in between, right? Mm-hmm. There’s obviously, so if you look small, it might look like it’s really shut up, but in the big picture, it’s kind of down
Stephanie: in the bigger picture, right?
It has gone
David: down, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like I say, we probably should have never go, gone out of the house in the eighties and nineties, right? It was, but it was super.
Stephanie: Nobody had had a problem then,
David: I mean, somehow we made it through, but yeah. Yeah. Look at us here. Exactly. Well, I don’t know if there’s anything else you wanted to jump in with, but I mean, uh, I’ve had fun.
This has been really, and I really appreciate you guys making the time. Um, I, I, I think [00:49:00] that’s, I had a good time with this.
Stephanie: Oh, thank you. Had
Luz: a great time as well. Thank you. Thank you for inviting
Stephanie: us. Yes. For sure, and hopefully next time we’ll have, or if there’s a next time we’ll have, um, Maria here so you can hear her side.
David: Yeah. No, that would be great. Yeah, so just some, I’ll make sure we get it in there. But I mean, so your podcast is the Unfiltered Trio. Mm-hmm. Right? Yes, yes. And mine is called Outrage Overload. So folks that wanna check out both of those podcasts, um, those, that’s what we’re, that’s what we’re coming from. So those should be easy to find on your favorite podcast player.
Yeah. So I don’t know if there’s anything else you wanted to add in there, but if not, I really appreciate the time and I, I thought it was fun.
Stephanie: Yes. Yeah, definitely. It was, it was awesome. And, um, I look forward to more chats possibly in the future. Me too.
Luz: Just be in the third wheel on the background.
All right. That’s awesome. Well, thanks for, thanks for Jo joining again. And, and, and I’ll see you soon.
Stephanie: Thank [00:50:00] you.
Luz: Thank you.
David: That is it for this episode of the Outrage Overload Podcast. For links to everything we talked about on this episode, visit outrage overload.net. You can find Stephanie Luz and Maria at the Unfiltered Trio Podcast on Apple, Spotify, and all the podcast player apps, or at Unfiltered Trio Pod on Instagram.
You can follow me, David Beckemeyer on Twitter @mrblog, or follow the show on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @OutrageOverload. If you like the show, consider giving us a review on Apple. I’m told I can help to give the show some extra cred and visibility, which might help to attract more of the kinds of great guests we’ve had.
It’s all about our first principle of putting out a quality show. Okay, watch for a new episode in a couple of weeks.[00:51:00]